A retired teacher and a resident doctor from Birmingham shared a meal and discussed topics ranging from the England flag to the NHS and pensions, finding both common ground and differences. The conversation was part of the Dining across the divide series.
First impressions and common ground
Liz, 77, a retired teacher, and Saima, 25, a resident doctor and postgraduate researcher, met at The Mayan restaurant in Birmingham. Liz said, 'When I saw Saima I thought: We're going to get on. She was smiley and lovely.' Saima added, 'I had an idea about the kind of person I was going to meet, and Liz fitted that in terms of age and race. We're not so different politically; I think she's more Green than I am.'
Both women shared a passion fruit cheesecake for dessert. Saima enjoyed barbecued lamb shank and a zero-alcohol beer from a local brewery, while Liz had tacos and a glass of rosé.
Debate over the England flag
Liz expressed concern about the proliferation of England flags and union jacks in south Birmingham, saying, 'I don't want them. I've spoken to people in shops around here, they're concerned that it's racist.' Saima, however, saw inclusivity in the display: 'There's one road where they had the St George's cross, Scottish flag and Irish flag, and I quite like that – these are our flags, it feels inclusive.'
Liz recounted an incident where someone was run over by people putting up flags with a cherrypicker. She said, 'I spoke to some of the people doing it and said we don't want them; they said that I didn't support our nation, they were very aggressive.' She added that it would stop her from putting an England flag in her window during the World Cup because everyone would see it as racist.
Saima noted that during Rishi Sunak's premiership, the union jack at press conferences felt 'on the nose' and tied to immigration policy, but during Covid, it represented national unity.
NHS: a shared positive view
Both women agreed on the value of the NHS. Saima said, 'We had a positive discussion about the NHS. It has its problems but we both think that a universal free-access healthcare service is a big plus.' Liz, who worked as a teacher, added that her experience with people of all ages helped keep the conversation flowing.
Pension triple lock divides opinions
Liz praised the pension triple lock, saying, 'It's great because it guarantees my pension.' She had lived in France for 30 years but paid contributions to maintain a UK state pension. Saima acknowledged the political difficulty of changing the triple lock, noting that pensioners are more likely to vote. However, she warned, 'We have a declining birthrate, an increasing number of pensioners and a smaller working-age population. In the future, it might become a difficult conversation.'
End of the evening
After dinner, Saima gave Liz a lift home. Liz said, 'Saima gave me a lift home, and took a photo of us in the car. She lives in a suburb of Birmingham where there's a really lovely Italian restaurant, and I told her if I went I'd give her a ring.' Saima added, 'As a pensioner, Liz has a free bus pass but it was 10pm and we both live in south Birmingham – I wasn't going to let her get the bus home.'
