A Labour peer and a Reform UK MP engaged in a fiery confrontation during the Makerfield by-election count, with Thangam Debbonaire asking Sarah Pochin: 'You don't like being on television with brown people, do you Sarah?'
The dispute erupted during a tense Sky News interview that also covered the £5 million personal gift Nigel Farace received from Thailand-based crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne before standing as an MP in the 2024 general election. The gift, first reported by the Guardian, is under investigation by the parliamentary standards commissioner to determine if it should have been declared.
Pochin, the MP for Runcorn and Helsby, defended Farage, stating: 'Nigel received that as a gift before he was in politics, so he doesn't need to declare it... Nigel has had his security taken away by the Labour government, which is spiteful. He's a politician and he's a target and now he has to pay for his own security.'
Debbonaire, who attempted to interject multiple times, retorted: 'He doesn't. Parliament provides security as you very well know... You have been interrupting me all night, Sarah, and now you're just talking rubbish.'
Farage has altered his explanation for the gift. Initially, he claimed it was for personal security for life. Later, he said it was a reward from Harborne for campaigning for Brexit. Parliamentary rules require any benefits to be declared for the 12 months before becoming an MP, depending on whether the gift was for political or personal purposes. The rules state: 'If there is any doubt, the benefit should be registered.'
The pair continued talking over each other during the live interview until Pochin appeared to mock Debbonaire, a former Labour MP for Bristol West, for losing her seat to the Greens in the 2024 general election. Debbonaire responded: 'And you don't like being on television with brown people, do you, Sarah? You've said that already.'
Pochin called the comment 'outrageous,' but Debbonaire pressed: 'Do you want me to find the quote of you saying you don't like seeing brown people on TV? Do you want me to find it for you, or was that not you? Was that some other Sarah Pochin?'
Debbonaire appeared to reference remarks Pochin made on TalkTV in October, where the Reform MP said: 'It drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people.' Pochin was responding to a viewer complaining about advertising demographics, agreeing that 'it doesn't reflect our society' and that 'your average white person, average white family is... not represented any more.'
The two also clashed over a video Pochin posted on X, urging the England team to 'keep winning' to prevent domestic violence escalation. Critics said she failed to condemn abusers and instead implied the football team was responsible for preventing attacks. Pochin defended the video, saying she was linking team losses to increased domestic violence incidents. But Debbonaire accused her of not standing up for women. As the discussion deteriorated, she added: 'Are you really only saying the only danger to women is people who come from other countries?... You keep smiling when we are talking about violence against women and girls.'
Debbonaire appeared exasperated during the interview, at times walking away from the camera, holding her head in her hands, and saying: 'Just let her talk, there's no point... Oh my God.'
On Friday, Debbonaire told the Guardian she stood by her comments and went into the interview prepared to challenge Pochin's views. She said: 'I am prepared to call out anybody who is espousing dangerous and prejudicial beliefs because brown people are frightened. Last week there was effectively a pogrom in the United Kingdom in which people were burned out of their homes because of the colour of their skin. I will stand up to anyone who stirs up hate and says things that are either discriminatory or untrue that enable other people to go out and be violent.'
Debbonaire added that more politicians needed to be prepared to challenge Reform. She said: 'These people are public figures and people listen to them and they have a responsibility for what they say and the consequence of what they say, the consequences of demonising black and brown people. I am done appeasing them.'
The Guardian has contacted Reform UK for comment.
