Oliver, a 22-year-old journalist for ConservativeHome, and Adrian, a 63-year-old retired PR worker from West Wycombe, met for a meal at Tangra in London W1. Despite their political differences, the two found agreement on the need for more housing stock, though they diverged on welfare and net zero.
First impressions and a shared meal
Adrian described Oliver as "a really nice young guy, a lot younger than I expected." Oliver noted Adrian arrived in shorts, making him feel overdressed in chinos. The pair shared a burrata watermelon chaat, coconut tofu, and hoisin duck pancakes, though Adrian pointed out the duck was mock duck, as the meal was vegetarian.
Clashing views on welfare
Adrian said that as far as Oliver is concerned, "it's too easy and too attractive to claim benefits." He argued that the welfare budget must be determined by existing need and that nothing should stigmatise or penalise those requiring support.
Oliver countered that if the welfare bill keeps rising, no amount of tax will suffice. He acknowledged that some people genuinely need support but noted that the number of graduate claimants has "gone up massively since Covid." He called for easier business employment and criticised current legislation, including employer national insurance rises, for making hiring harder.
Adrian observed that Oliver seemed politically minded but "in a very strategic, pragmatic way," with everything determined by what might get the Conservative party elected, without "really any ideas or even an ideology." Oliver responded that he is a Tory who believes in fiscal conservatism and does not care about the culture war, stating "people should be able to live freely."
Housing and planning disagreements
Both agreed on the need for more housing stock. Oliver advocated for relaxing the planning system, citing a niche recommendation that every window should be cleanable by 95% of elderly ladies. Adrian argued for more regulation, blaming developers' land-banking and building in inappropriate areas, leading to out-of-town developments requiring car travel.
Adrian suggested all new housing developments should include an inbuilt windfarm or energy source. Oliver countered that this would make building houses even harder, saying "we've got a shortage now – we should worry about the rest later."
Net zero and final agreement
Adrian made a case for accelerating change towards cleaner energy, more electric vehicles, heat pumps, and a home insulation programme. Oliver challenged who would pay for such measures and whether costs would be passed to consumers. Adrian proposed making polluters pay to disincentivise pollution.
Both agreed on moving towards a net-zero economy and that job opportunities exist there. Oliver called net zero "an arbitrary target," noting that Kemi Badenoch does not deny climate change but wants a practical approach that considers consequences for jobs and the economy.
By the end of the meal, Adrian said Oliver has "clearly got the ambition," but he wondered if he might channel it differently. Oliver described the evening as "really wholesome," concluding: "By the end of the meal we agreed on quite a lot – we just want politics to be better and the country to be less divided."
